tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC March 31, 2017 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
>> i'm joy reed, thanks for watching. i'll see you tomorrow on a.m. joy starting at 10:00 a.m. eastern time. and hard ball is up next. lock who up? let's play hard ball. ♪ ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington at the republican convention last summer michael flynn picking up with theri of the trump crowd goaded the ance into exuberant chants of "lock her up" they wanted hillary clinton put in jail. they sure did. >> lock her up! >> lock her up. that's right. yes, that's right. lock her up. if i did a tenth -- a tenths of what she did, i would be in jail
today. >> today you can sense the chant coming from the trump people. listen closely and you can pick up a slightly different rhythm right now of don't lock me up, don't lock me up! yesterday it was reported first by the wall street journal that trump's former national security adviser michael flynn, the guy saw there going after hillary, his lauer is looking to get flynn immunity in order to testify about what he knows. according to his lawyer trump's former national security adviser certainly has a story to tell. this morning president trump tweeted that mike flynn should ask for immunity in is that this is a witch hunt an excuse for a big election lost by the democrats and the media of historic proportion. at the meeting today sean spicer conexplained the president was trying to convey his desire to see flynn testify. >> if you actually stop for a second and realize what the president is doing he is saying do whatever to do to go up and make it clear what happened,
take whatever precaution you want or however your legal counsel advises you. >> general flynn's attorney says he has a story to tell. is the white house concerned that the white house has damaging information about the president, his aides, his associates, about what occurred during the campaign with respect to russia? >> nope. >> nope. we'll see. nbc reported today that the senate intelligence committee turned down general flynn's request for immunity. his lawyer was told it was wildly preliminary to discuss such a thing. joining me is the "wall street journal's" carol lee who broke the story of the attempted immunity deal, and howard feynman, an msnbc political analyst. carol, thank you for joining us. what is the king thinking tonight. what is trump worried about for michael flynn? what has he got on him? >> from the white house's perspective, their posture is he doesn't have anything on him. if we step back, we don't know. this is somebody, mike flynn was with the president almost every day during the campaign. >> well he says he has a story to tell.
>> yes. >> what's the -- >> that's another question, we don't know what the story is. michael flynn has his time spent with donald trump and the trump campaign and the transition into the white house. mike flynn has another -- he has had contacts with russia, not just with the ambassador here in washington, but he has been paid tens of thousands of dollars by entities that are arms of the russian government, and he sat at a dinner in december of 2015 with vladimir putin. and so he -- there are a number of stories that he could tell. >> howard, look at this. we've been here before. you see a guy not far down the tree from the president. right there, national security adviser. he knows a lot. the more he is afraid, the more he is going to talk. the more he is looking at 20 years for not disclosing money he got from the russia. not being honest when he was under oath when he was talking to an ambassador about russian
sanctions. he says i'm damn damn not going to prison for this guy, i want to talk. >> first of all, he wants to talk at time when he would be most useful. the committee wants to learn everything it can about what flynn has to say from people other than flynn so they don't have to give him much, if anything. so they are saying wait a minute, wait a minute b. but if you are the attorney for flynn you want to get him in there right away so he gets credit for whatever he says from them. and also you have another reason, which is you want to give yourself what they call in the trade here in washington an immunity bath. you want to cover yourself with as much immunity as the committee is willing to give you. >> not just use, not just what you say, but anything. >> anything. in order the make it more difficult for the feds and the fbi and the justice department to try to prosecute you. those are the twin things going on. >> first of all he filled out financial disclosure forms, what he said to the russians, how much he got what he said to the russians.
what else? what he said to the russian ambassador. >> he spoke with the fbi. if you look at his track record, there has been two thing he was not forthcoming on, obviously, his -- the nature of what the conversations with the russian ambassador were. >> kislyak. >> kislyak, and he did not report being an agent of a foreign government with some of his work he had done with turkey. >> turkey. >> those are two examples. not only that, but going back to when he was a top intelligence official in the government he would have to report certain contacts that he had, there is a whole array. >> let's talk human nature. your paper has been covering chris christie. the other day we saw chris christie's top person, deputy in a government relations person, bridget kelly, the other guy, what's his name? >> i know he got two years in the slammer ahead of him. >> wait a minute, sometimes the guy who work for the guy get in trouble we u.s.a. see it a lot. with scooter libby, dick cheney getting in trouble.
they are the ones that swing and the big guys get away. >> he doesn't want to swain. to get an old refrain from the watergate days the question is what did the president know and when did he know it? when did candidate trump go and when did he know it. >> baroni is the name. >> bill baroniy. >> to me, the most vulnerable thing ises that flynn has is not registering as a foreign agent. >> that's a serious crime. >> >> the lawyer happens to be an expert in that field. they want to protect him on that. >> he wants that bath? >> he wants whatever he can get by way of the battle against the prosecution they have got him on. >> donald trump and michael flynn addressed the issue of immunity in the past let's listen to then candidate trump last september discussing hillary clinton's associates. >> her aides took the fifth amendment, and her ring leaders were given immunity. and if you are not guilty of a crime, what do you need immunity
for? >> how it all comes around. what goes around comes around in d.c. here's that flynn sai on "meet the press" in september. >> five people around her have been given immune to include her former chief of staff. when you are given immune that means you have probably committed a crime. >> he just said -- he just said if you on the wad immunity you probably committed a crime. there he is talking about somebody else. and everybody is hearing him now talking about himself. >> now the white house's position as we've seen them do before is well that was then and this is now and this doesn't mean anything now. >> i have been watching spicer. i think he reached the point of incredibility. did you watch today? were you there. >> yes. >> what did you make of it howard. he was just saying things that -- he was denying all of this. >> i think he's only performing for an audience of one chris. he's not performing for glen thrush or carol or any of the reporters in the room. he's doing his shtick for the
president of the united states. so for sean spicer to get out there and say only only interest is to get to the bottom of this whole thing. >> that's why we want him to testify. >> that's why we want him to testify. everybody in the room isn't taking that seriously but donald trump is presumably back there in the oval office watching him and saying the way to give it to them, sean. >> the better he prosecutes it the more the president likes it. >> until the president decides like a kleenex tsh you sean is done, then he will pull out somebody else to do it. >> more like a pez dispenser. >> sean spicer is trying to do the bidding of the president. it's tough. >> amy klobuchar joins us now. we are chuckling about the irony. not the tragedy. it is a tragedy. we have a president with people around him who are beginning to rat on him and offering themselves up if they will get protection themselves under the law. a bath of immunity is how he phrased it, he is an attorney,
like yourself, senator. what do you think as a former prosecutor? what's going on with trump? how dangerous are his waters right now? >> okay. i was pretty stunned he did this tweet this morning saying first of all that flynn should get the immunity. which they themselves said it was an implicati- i'm not saying it is -- tt a crime was committed. then saying it was a witch hunt. it is a truth hunt. we have to get to the bottom of what happened here. now we have a situation where the president's former national security adviser, literally was just appointed the national security adviser, lies to the vice president and then has to step down. we are now talking about immunity. i think as a prosecutor i can tell you you have got to be really careful with this congressional what is called derivative use immunity, what we saw in the case of oliver north who was convicted of three
felony counts but then they were reversed because it was found that during the congressional investigation the witnesses were so tainted that the conviction, the actual conviction didn't stand up. i know that senator warner and the senator burr and the intelligence committee in the senate is going to be very careful here. and it is just way too early, as adam schiff said today, to be talking about anything like this. and i -- i know they won't be doing anything about it without talking to the justice department if this is an ongoing investigation, as we believe it is. >> senator, let's talk about political irony here. you have not been around here as long as i have, there is an old phrase, what goes around comes around. here are the people that were trucking in the business of saying we are going to put people in jail like it's south korea or pakistan where if you lose an election we put you away. they were talking like that just a few months ago. now we are talking immunity. i want to know what you thought of the phrase lock her up when they were throwing that line out
in cleveland. >> listen, as a former prosecutor and someone who has had to be very careful before you jump to those conclusions, i can't tell you when i had that job for eight years how many times i would say, we are still looking at the evidence. this is what is out there publicly. this is what is in the complaint. you simply can't jump to conclusions like that as a leader. sure you can when you are sitting around a bar talking to your friend. bee when you are a leader and on national television you have an obligation to be careful with those kinds of words and there is some irony in the fact that they are now coming back to haunt them. >> what do you make of the long progression of incidences where there was connections between the trump campaign, his people, from manafort to carter page, to roger stone, himself, all these people, including flynn, having these regular encounters with russians at the time that we were dealing with the sanctions issue, where the republicans were rewriting their platform, including the plank on how we should deal with ukraine in a
far more lean yen manner than ever before, when money was being passed to flynn and people like that. what do you make of the connection? does it look like a two-way connection or just a one-way connection? >> you know, i think this is getting seedier and seedier and seedier. i read that intelligence report, the 17 intelligence agencies, the one that was public. and i thought to myself, this is our united states intelligence agencies saying that this is actually going on and having been in ukraine with john mccain and lindsey graham, having seen the influence of russia and with a they've done, the invasions, the killings of 10,000 people, this isn't just games and some kind of fun little thing of cloak and dagger. this is actually something happening. when you go from manafort, the campaign chair, to the national security adviser, to the fact that he talked to the russian ambassador on the exact same day that president obama announced expanded sanction. and then you have the attorney general of the united states having met with that same
ambassador only three days after president obama and putin met and president obama made clear he wasn't taking away the sanctions -- it's just one person in power after another. and that's why not only is this intelligence investigation important. it's why we have to have an independent commission. and that's something that on january 4th i called for with ben cardin and elijah cummings and adam schiff. the four of us stood together stood together and said yes go on with your investigation but let's hav an independent commission. >> you can't have a bipartisan investigation, can you. >> i called for his recusal. but i do think we want to allow the senate process to continue. both warner and burr did a good job this week. there is no reason at the same time you can have an independent commission. they would be looking at it from a different angle, that's a
panel of experts just like after 9/11 that would be coming forward with ways to prevent this from happening again. this is not just an assault on one candidate, one election, one country, it is really an assault on all democracys. >> we have had problems in our history, joe mccarthy back in the 50s, republicans put him away. in watergate it was democrats and republicans putting him away. when we are bipartisan and work together, this country is so much better off. thank you senator for coming on tonight. there has been a theme by the way in sean spicer's briefing today, at least on questions on russia, flynn, and devin nunes. see if you can pick up on it, watch? i don't know what he knows. >> do you know if that is the case? >> i don't, if i start commenting on every one of these stories, i can't -- that's not our practice. i don't know the answer to that. i don't know the answer to that question. i don't know the answer to that. some of it -- i don't know. i don't know. you should -- i'm not aware of that. >> if you could just find out.
>> you can call the fbi. >> do you have any new information about how the chairman did get onto the campus? >> as i said the last two days i'm not going to discuss that. >> will you release any -- >> respectfully, the counsel's office is working with them. i don't want to get in front of how they go back and forth and make a decision. the white house counsel's office sent that letter. they are the uns ones -- it's not my decision, major. i don't know what they will or won't do going forward and i don't want to prejudge that. >> reminds me of hogan's heros. i don't know. the lovable sherman. it's his job. i don't know nothing. nunes goes there the next day, picks up a pile of christmas presents. the next day goes to the president, here are some presents, i don't know where i t the from, he got them from his crowd the night before. it is a mask raid. >> there are times when sean spicer said he does know, on this very issue, it doesn't make
sense that nunes would come here and go back and then come back here. >> doesn't pass the smell test. >> he keeps getting tripped up on this. it used to be press secretaries would say i'll take the question and get back to you. >> he comes the question and said who let him in the door. and then the next day he says i agreed the take the question, i didn't agree to give you an answer. >> what they are trying is trying to shift the question from what russia did to who leaked what about this. >> i know, it is a sideshow. >> and sean spicer today was desperately trying to quote change the narrative. that's the favorite word in the briefing room it's narrative. it's not answering questions. it's who can construct the narrative. he can do it. he is trying. trying to impress the boss but he is not able to do it. >> the history books will be written with the word russia in them. it's not going to be nunes, who is going to be forgotten, carol lee great reporting. congrats.
>> thank you. >> always good to get the scoop on the front page. howard feynman. coming up, devin nunes attempted a caper to keep secrets from the white house. his sly attempts to take the heat off president trump all seem to be unraveling. don't you think? a member of the house intelligence committee is going to join us after the break with more. apart from college basketball there is real march madness at the white house. everything trump warned us about when he warned us about hillary clinton becoming president is pretty much what is going on right now. the worst case scenario. plus joe biden is back. and he has words for donald trump. here's a hint, it's advice on the president's tweeting habits. let me finish tonight with trump watch. you won't like it. this is hard ball. flonase allergy relief delivers more complete relief. flonase helps block 6 key inflammatory substances that cause all your symptoms, including nasal congestion and itchy, watery eyes. flonase is an allergy nasal spray
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former vice president joe biden offered donald trump advice during an appearance thursday at the university of pennsylvania. take a listen. >> if you could give president trump one piece of advice, what would it be? >> grow up. i would literally, you know, stop tweeting. and start focusing. the words of a president matter. they have enormous, enormous, enormous reverberating sounds around the world. >> by the way, that's amy gutman there. at the launch of the penn biden center for diplomacy and global engage men. we'll be right back. when you're close to the people you love,
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welcome back to hard ball. house intelligence chair devin nunes repeatedly denied that his source for those intelligence reports on government surveillance of the trump transition team me from the white house. but reporting from the "new york times" and the "washington post" has contradicted the chair's explanation and forced him to come clean. following president trump's tweet claiming he was wiretapped by president obama and now appears that nunes himself was chosen as the laundry service for the white house. in this mickey mouse operation of the white house was the vehicle which nunes was handed the job of getting rid of dirtily lawndy. according to the "new york times" and rick cohen the senior
for intelligence was one of the sources and began gathering evidence shortly after president trump's wiretapping tweet. when flynn's replacement tried to oust him, source say president trump saved him his job reportedly at the urging of his advisors kushner and bannon. mike ellis a lawyer in the counsel office who previously worked with nunes was the second white house official according to the "new york times." today the "washington post" reported a third official, top lawyer for the nsc john eisenberg was also involved in the handling of those reports that went to nunes. we caught up with two of the three, ellis and eisenberg early this morning. >> did you provide nunes intelligence? >> i'm not talking about anything. >> did you see what devin nunes shared with president trump? >> i have got get to work. >> can you tell us anything about which trump officials were
mentioned in the documents given to chairman nunes? >> nothing. >> can you tell us anything -- if there were any corroboration with russian officials by the obama administration? >> i have no idea. >> can you tell us anything, any information about the current investigation going on by chairman nunes? >> nothing to say. >> can you give us any information, sir? >> couple more guys that don't know nothg. congressman mike quickly is a democratroilliis sits on the intelligence committee. and greg miller correspondent from the "washington post." gentlemen, welcome. i'm thinking i'm trump, i woke up on a saturday and i tweeted that the former president wiretapped me during the trump campaign at trump tower. then i realized i made a mistake and i consult my advisors and we
go what do we have and who can we feed it to? they say we have got cohen and ellis who used to work for nunes. put this thing together. congressman, it looks like it was an alley-oop play. i like to use that phrase. dick cheney used to do it. give it to somebody else to deliver. and then you can say, as i was saying. they have got this guy, nunes, pegged. they used him. they fed him stuff out of the white house. one night. the next morning he came back and announced it with the president with alarming he had just gotten from the president's people the night before. how do you see it yourself? >> i'm listening to the three stooges theme in the background unfortunately. it's extraordinarily troubling and frustrating. and at this point in time, the only thing we have is the opportunity to go forward. i'm not giving up on the house investigation. there's a lot of good people over there. clearly, we have had an extraordinarily tough week. and you know, you know that there have been calls for mr.
nunes to step aside. that's not going to happen, unfortunately. so we are going to work together, hopefully, and pivot and go back to regular order this week. >> do you trust him? >> i think he's made it difficult for the investigation to go forward, but given that there are very few options, i don't have any choice. i'll tell you this. he was a very fair chairman under the obama administration. it's been difficult this last week or so, especially since obviously president trump took office. at this point in time, i wish i could say more. we have no choice. the speaker isn't going to knock him off. he's not going to recuse himself in the final analysis we are going to be reading the same documents. and we have been. we are going to be interviewing the same witnesses. i do believe we are going to have that open hearing. and i do believe we are going back to meetings with admiral rogers and mr. comey to find out
exactly what took place. >> greg, it seems to me that when this thing is fully aired by the press and by the committee to some extent but more by the press we are going to see the materials give to mr. nunes on tuesday night last week are basically the ones they are going to be giving out. but when they gave them to him in a special bay, almost like giving an exclusive to a reporter, build it up and make it seem alarming and exculpatory for the president, make the president look good on his dawn patrol tweets. i get the feeling it's not going to be that useful once it comes out in a normal fashion. what do you make of it? what's there? >> i think that's true, the more we've learned about the documents, and we are still a long way from learning everything about them, it sounds less and less alarming, right? you peel back where nunes started, which was very uncomfortable, boy, the american public wouldn't like to see this stuff. then he has a conversation with adam schiff, and schiff says boy based on what nunes told me when i press him on this issue is
this was sort of standard operating procedure for intelligence agencies. i mean there is a legitimate issue here on the unmasking of american officials who show up in the surveillance of foreign governments. but it's just so odd how the white house in this case has sort of used nunes and damaged his credibility over such a seemingly minuscule matter, this tweet. you just sort of wonder whether nunes is such an important ally for the administration, whether they might have wanted to preserve his credibility for more important developments later on in this russia story. >> mr. quickly, a couple -- i think there is three cases in the last week where the white house's people basically told us the story. first of all sean spicer whose job is to speak for the president saying it doesn't pass as the smell test if he got the stuff at the white house one night and shows up the next day to bring it back. then this congressman from florida, works for the president. said quigley, one of the members
of your intelligence committee works for the president. what do you make about the claims, about the constitution, they seem to admit -- i said they sound like their own worst witnesses. >> at this point, mr. spicer is channelling his inner ron ziegler. i think there is something beyond this that's more troubling. how this information was passed back and forth. unfortunately, what's taking place here besides the distraction is the very real possibility that there are going to be investigations of what's happened during the investigation. and is that a distraction to the american public? it absolutely is. there's a lot of serious work to do on this. not the least of which is how do we prevent this sort of russian involvement again. but we're not going to get there if we are playing these sort of crazy games. >> do you think nunes wants to find out the trump role in cooperating with the russians,
if there was one? does he want to know what hand they played in encouraging the russians to hack the democratic national committee, podesta and palmieri and all the rhett of that that seemed to droi hillary clinton's campaign? do you think nunes wants to find out the truth of trump's role in all of that? >> i would think every american would like to fine out the truth how far the russian involvement -- what took place, who played a role in that, who if anyone was helping on side of the united states. how far did this go? how do we prevent it in the future? and what about these leaks? that's the four levels of this investigation i have to assume that they are going to work in good faith. obviously, my doubts have been raised. we are going to keep a good eye on it and alert the american public. we have got a job to do. i can't let them succeed on the distractions. otherwise we are rewarding bad behavior. i have to make this investigation work. >> well said.
ank u u. congressman mike quigley of illinois and greg miller. up next, talk about march madness for the trump administration. we will tell you why this has not ban good month for this president. has hard ball, where the action is. allergies with nasal congestion? find fast relief behind the counter with claritin-d. [ upbeat music ] strut past that aisle for the allergy relief that starts working in as little as 30 minutes and contains the best oral decongestant. live claritin clear, with claritin-d.
had not. sessions recused himself from the investigation into collusion a day later. then on the 4th of the month, trump dropped his explosive tweets falsely accusing the prior administration of wiretapping him during the campaign. on march 6th, republicans unveiled the american health care act but one week later the cbo said t bill would cost -- would cause 24 million americans to lose coverage. two days later on the 159:a federal judge blocked the president's second travel ban. on march 20th, fbi director james comey publicly confirmed that the bureau is investigating alleged ties between the trump campaign and russia. two days later devin nunes said he had seen reports showing intelligence on surveillance of the trump transition team who was provided by the white house.
the president ignites a war within his party against the freedom caucus. on the 25th he promotes a segment on fox news that calls for house speaker paul ryan to step down. on the 29dth of this month a judge in hawaii extended the block of the president's travel ban. just yesterday, three white house officials are outed for showing intelligence reports to chairman nunes. former national security adviser michael flynn asks for legal immunity from investigators in exchange for his testimony. today the president tweets his support for flynn and it's revealed the senate has turned down that request for immunity. we'll discuss president trump's bad month with the hard ball panel coming up here next. you are watching hard ball. mom gets breakfast in bed...
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he realized his approach has failed. months ago candidate trump warned voters about hillary clinton and promised that he would fix things. >> we need a government that can go to work on day one for the american people. that will be impossible with hillary clinton. the prime suspect in a far-reaching criminal investigation. her current skamgdss and controversies will continue throughout -- scandals and controversies will continue throughout her presidency and will make it virtually impossible for her to govern. if hillary clinton were to be elected, it would create an unprecedented and protracted constitutional crisis. the investigation will last for years. the trial will probably start. nothing will get done. i alone can fix it. >> for more, i'm joined by
jonathan cape hard, opinion writer for the "washington post." ruth, and -- >> how is he doing? >> let's get perspective. remember the first term of the clintons, first 100 days. disaster, hillary care. people getting ousted. people thought he would never get reelected. he was reelected. i'm thinking about the last couple of weeks and i'm perplexed why we are not talking about the real scandal. was there a misuse of government surveillance? were there raw intelligence reports that made it into the hounds of white house senior officials? my thing is i want to get to the bottom this, i think talk to republicans who say let's get to the bottom, let's have flynn and everybody in front of the committees but also let'sursue what actually happened. ruth, that's a legitimate newe hear it from sean spicer every day, the line, that
the real story here is leaks. it's been my experience for a long time that people in power tend to care about leaks and nobody else does. >> well, the real story here is a bunch of different stories. the real story here is what director comey told us he was investigate, right? what did russia to do influence the election and was there any improper coordination, collusion, between members of the trump campaign and you know, associates, and the russians to influence the election? that's the main story. there are also totally legitimate pieces to that story. were there improper leaks? how did these leaks occur? it seems to me that the trump campaign -- the trump administration has sort of created its own circular reality here. that doesn't mean that there might not have been improper unmasking. but the fundamental issue is the fundamental issue, which is the
russians, and what trump did or didn't do with them. >> i think the big story -- is what you said, the symbiotic partnership to it. the most aggressive print press coverage i've seen since watergate. the "washington post," the "new york times" fighting it out with a huge contingency of reporters, incredible enterprise all over the front page, two or three stories a day. i've never seen such aggressiveness. i think that's the other en -- of leaks. they are getting the story out faster than trump's people are, that's for sure. >> when you've got the media environment that's so rapid fire, once you got up to speed on the story that broke at 1:00 there is a new one at 1:30. >> michael flynn is going to go for immunity, it blew everything else out of the saddle around 7:00 last night. >> it's also because it is a target rich environment. you have an administration that raises more questions every time they attempt to either answer
one or on few skate answering another question. d you know, the longer the president and his senior advisors continue to get around answering questions saying i don't know, i don't know, i don't know -- as you said earlier -- the more this story is going to along. in washington we have seen this happen, an administration that refuses to just own up to whatever it is they no. the longer the story goes on, and the more damage it cause. >> let me ask you, do you think this travel -- the travel office story was a pain in the butt that the clintons -- they wanted to give their cousin a job in the travel office. it handled travel office for the press, not the travel for the country. can you figure out who is in the white house with the president? here we are 70 days. i'm trying to fig you out who is sitting next to him. i think's lonely guy, personally, doesn't have a lot of buds. jared kushner, and his wife, the
praez's daughter, he identifies this guy, cohen, the head of intelligence at nsc, he hooks up with this guy, ellis, who hooks up with nunes, nunes heads over in the middle of the night. you are laughing. it is a mickey mouse operation. it is all come to light their plan to skip this thing around and get it laundered at the white house and have a republican chairman of the committee say this is damage alarming information. it was their own information. it is a beginning to look mickey mouse, i'm sorry. >> it's funny that nunes a week ago was lauded by the press by calling out trump on his tweets. calling him out on his tweets. >> that's what they reacted to. i think nunes got heat for that. >> again, i will go back to ultimately at the ends of the day the conversation -- i don't think there will be any evidence. we have seen brennan, clapper, others saying there is no proof, there is no information that
shows collusion with russia. >> what does michael flynn want immunity for? what does he want to get -- what is the story he wants to tl? his lawyers thinking he has a story to tell. >> in a witch hundred. >> there is no witch -- >> if you listen to the narrative you could have sworn there were russians agents in voting booths in wisconsin. >> here's a good way to disrupt the narrative, have the president come out and tell everything. >> i'm going to agree with you. on this i don't think the white house has been as good at driving the narrative. i think they could be better. i think there will be a hard look at what took place over these weeks. >> i don't believe in witches. i believe in witch-hunts. but i look at a picture and i see the guy that was going to be national security adviser to the president sitting at dinner with putin and getting paid $30,000. >> three weeks. >> i know, what's it say? what carter page over to russia all the time. what's that back and forth
about? meetings kislyak. all these meetings with flynn covered up. if there was nothing wrong with the meeting, why did they deny them. jonathan, you haven't said anything. >> i just had an outburse. [ overlapping speakers ] >> if the white house driving, not doing a good job driving the narrative, they are like the democrats' best friend. they started with the tweet, and then they keep digging deeper and deeper. you talked about the first 100 days of the clinton administration. i was a white house reporter during that. tell me what bill clinton's numbers were after his first 100 days and you would swap them for donald trump's. >> 4% in. >> they committed some of the mistakes because they didn't have experienced people around them. >> let me ask you about learning curves. all the different points of view here, opinion writers you are allowed to have them, of course you have an opinion. what have you seen of a lerveing curve from trump? where has he shown week by week the pick up on people who to
trust, ways of doing things. you are getting quiet on me. i don't see it either. show me some learning -- where has he improved. >> 18 months ago people thought this guy is is a joke. quick study. he is the president of the united states. i think he let sebody else drive his agenda. i think he is goio learn from that. >> who is that? >> paul ryan on hill. i think there were mistakes in how the agenda and the agenda calendar has run out. >> do you think paul ryan has talent. >> he has some talent but not as much talent as speakers in the past. >> learning term in terms of monitoring policies, more extreme policies have turned out to be more moderate but not on presidential behavior like tweeting. >> i think the presidential cabinet -- there are interesting people on the cabinet, better than him. i look to them to protect this
country more than him. that is scary. >> coming up -- this is hard ball, where the action is. a heart attack doesn't care what you eat or how healthy you look. no matter who you are, a heart attack can happen without warning. a bayer aspirin regimen can help prevent another heart attack. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. bayer aspirin.
earlier today the country lost a major figure in republican politics and in the historic civil rights movement. william t. coleman jr. of philadelphia was an honors graduate of the university of pennsylvania and also the harvard law school. and after serving in the army air corps in world war ii, he clerked for supreme court justice felix frankfurter as an attorney. he co-authored the legal brief in brown versus education which held school segregation to be unconstitutional and struck down
the discredited notion of separate but equal. and through a long career in the law and in public service, bill coleman played a role in republican administrations from president eisenhower through president ford for whom he served as the first african-american cabinet member in a republican administration. president bill clinton awarded secretary coleman the presidential medal of freedom. william t. coleman jr. he was 97. anything else to talk about. but then i realized there was. so, i finally broke the silence with my doctor about what i was experiencing. he said humira is for people like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief. and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,
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we're back with the "hardball" round table. jonathan, tell me something i don't know. >> so everyone is focused on tax reform, that this is the thing, the next big thing they're going to have a big fight over. that's not it. you've got two freight trains running head long into each other. there is the upcoming 2018 fiscal budget due october 2nd and then you've got the debt ceiling which needs to be raised sometime between october and november, the country could lose its buying authority. >> it's huge.
>> a big payment is due on october 2nd. if they don't raise the debt ceiling, that would be the day. >> it's going to be about the mexican wall. you watch because the democrats are not going to pay for that wall. ruth. >> we've been talking a lot about devin nunes. he was not the original choice of then house speaker john boehner to be the chairman of the intelligence committee. it was another member of that committee, mike conaway, who boehner went for. nunes was not happy about that, lobbied the speaker, got the job. some people -- >> development that was. ned? i love this guy yoho who said his job is to work for the president. >> trump's going to have to make a decision, outsider/insider, it was his outsider instincts that got him to the white house. he's got to trust his instincts. at some point there's going to be a changeup with the white house staff. i'm not sure if sean spicer and rice make it. >> how does he get anything done with his attitude? how do you get 216 votes in the house? how do you pass anything? >> i think you're going to bring the freedom caucus guys back to the table. i feel pretty positive you're
going to get something done and you go on to tax reform. >> thank you. when we return, let me finish with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." whe'o the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment? if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. with taltz, up to 90% of patients had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. in fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin. do not use if you are allergic to taltz. before starting you should be checked for tuberculosis. taltz may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you are being treated for an infection or have symptoms. or if you have received a vaccine or plan to.
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attention over the years, areas of great concern to this country's secure and to the rights of its citizens. one of those areas was women's productive rigs. whatever your position on abortion, how you see it as a matter of personal or societal morality, how you believe it should be handled or not handled by the law in a free society is a matter most people have given some serious thought to. donald trump is not one of those people. as i and you learned this time a year ago. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion? yes or no as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> now, there are other questions to which candidate trump gave unsettling answers in the campaign. in that same interview, for example, trump refused to rule out the use of nuclear weapons in europe, and one has to wonder what scenario would put that option, as trump said, on the table. so think back to franklin roosevelt in 1933, soothing us with the line, we have nothing to fear but fear itself. but this time with this president, don't take fear off
the table. fear itself may come in handy. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. >> have ra great weekend. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. happy friday. god decided to give me an ice storm for my buried this year, so we're broadcasting from western massachusetts tonight. super happy to be here with a very nice group of people. sort of my home studio but it's been a long time since i've been here. i'm grateful to all the people who made this possible. there's a lot going on tonight. elizabeth warren and bernie sanders are in the other half of the state. they are headlining a big rally in boston. this is an event that has attracted thousands of people here in deep blue massachusetts.